Christian Apologetics, Logic in Religious Debate, Christianity vs. Atheism. Just how real is God?

FROM SKEPTICISM TO WORSHIP  Read how A.S.A. Jones discovered faith in God after 20 years of hardcore skepticism and debate.

THE TRUTH OF THE BIBLE; LEARNING TO THINK SPIRITUALLY  -Spiritual truths illustrated through Optical Illusions, Riddles and the Mobius Strip.

DEBATE, ARGUMENT, AND APOLOGETICS; CONTENDING EARNESTLY FOR THE FAITH - An examination of the Scopes Monkey Trail. Table of Fallacies, Using Logic in Debate, More...

 

RELIGIOUS DEBATE!;  SEE WHAT IT TAKES TO COME OUT ON TOP! Learn how to argue your point by reading these actual debates against hardline skeptics

DIRECT HIT DEBATE TIP: Debate is two people giving each other the opportunity to say something stupid.  More Tips...

ANALYZE THIS!  RESPONSES TO E-MAIL. INCLUDES AIR-TIGHT  LOGICAL ARGUMENTS FOR:

How can a good God allow suffering

What about those who have never heard about Jesus 

And more!

THE GAME DESIGNER ARGUMENT WHY GOD'S MORALITY IS OBJECTIVE  Exposes secular morality and meaning to life as an imaginary game.

THE POLITICAL CHRISTIAN

Why Secularists Fear Politically Active Christians

Other essays by A.S.A. Jones:

Why I Believe God is Real

The Games Skeptics Play

A Message to any Christian Entering Debate or College

A Man Called J. P. Holding

How to Witness to an Atheist

The Spirit of Jesus Christ

An Ex-Atheist’s Gospel: Concepts and Scripture that Make Sense to Non-Christians

Christian Poetry - The Paradox of Biblical Jabberwocky; Why Not A Christian?

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Book, Radio, TV, and Media Recommendations

 

Off Site Webs

Blue Letter Bible - Find scripture verses fast

ScriptureKnowledge.Info - Insight from my pastor, Pastor Roy Aiken

Infidels.org's parody of Ex-atheist.com

Tim Holt’s Philosophy of Religion

J.P. Holding's Tekton Apologetics Ministries

Virtual Salt - More on Logic and Worldview from Robert Harris

India's Rational Christianity

Glenn Miller's Christian Think-Tank

Theology Web - Where the Big Bananas Play

The Body of Messiah - A Heart Provoking Site

Amazing Bible

This Web is dedicated to MR. DALLAS EATON. Thank you for giving me the encouragement to write.

 

"There Are No Moral Absolutes; The God of the Bible is Absolutely Immoral!"

                                           ~ A.S.A. Jones


Secular Humanism teaches us that morality is relative; different people at different times view morality differently. It teaches us that we cannot condemn other cultures for their moral codes, just because we have a different perspective. Because cultures are simply collections of people, to avoid an ad populum fallacy (where right and wrong are determined by majority rule), the argument has to be extended to the individual; just because you and I may have a different perspective on right and wrong than does another person, does not mean that we can condemn them for their personal moral codes. The end result of such a philosophy is that there really isn’t any right or wrong at all.

I'm always surprised, therefore, when atheists attack Christianity using moral indignation over the slaughter that took place in Numbers 31. Let's examine the issue from a strictly logical, non-emotional perspective.

Moses obviously thought that killing the Midianites was a good and proper thing to do, just as Bin Laden thought that it was good and proper to kill 3,000 Americans by flying airplanes into the Trade Towers, and just as America thought it right to drop the atomic bomb on Hiroshima to end WW2. Is killing always 'wrong'? If so, is that not a declaration of a moral absolute? Isn't a moral absolute a direct contradiction of moral relativism? If so, is moral relativism wrong? Is it proper to make the observation that different cultures have different moral values and to then make the statement that they are immoral, simply because their moral values differ from our own? We must admit that we are immoral by another culture's standards; can you see the resulting hypocrisy?

When I first read Numbers 31, I wanted to condemn Moses and the God that commanded him to kill. But what made my opinion on the matter carry any more weight than Moses' opinion that it was a moral decision? Is there no such thing as a 'just war'? You may not think that there is. However, what gives your opinion on the matter any more authority than those who think that wars can be just? How, then, can a person who accepts secular humanism's view that morality is relative be in a position to condemn Moses?

In simple terms, such condemnation merely exposes the personal bias and emotionalism of the moral relativist. If one doesn’t like the idea of God, then one will be quick to condemn God for His actions, even if the result is hypocrisy. On the other hand, if a moral relativist is fair minded, he will take the time to see the moral perspective from the other side.

When we read the Old Testament, we discover that the Caananites are described as wicked. What this means, described loosely in secular terms, is that the moral culture of the Caananites differed dramatically from the moral culture of the Israelites. It is known that the people of Moab sacrificed their babies by placing them into the red hot hands of a heated statue of their god. Their standards of honesty, respect for life, and sanctity of marriage were different than Israel's. What Moses tried to prevent with warfare was the unpalatable mixing of two diametrically opposed societies. If a person honestly thought that sacrificing babies was wrong, how would they feel when they saw this practice spreading, perhaps even seeing some of their own people who had married into the other culture, performing this act on their children? They were outraged. But from the Moabites point of view, to be made not to sacrifice children to their god was equally offensive and wrong! In Numbers 25, we see that this inter-marrying was taking place. Moses did not want his people to become as wicked as the Midianites, and so he did what he thought was proper - he destroyed all whom he considered to be a threat to his culture. The men and women were killed because they would both fight to have their way of life preserved. The boys were killed because they would grow up resenting the Israelites and cause problems later on. The young girls were not seen as a threat because, submissive and young, they would form bonds and babies with their captors and become absorbed into the culture.

When there is a clash of cultures with diametrically opposed values, there can be no peace. We see this being played out in the Middle East. The western world believes in freedom for ALL through democracy, Islam believes in submission to God for ALL through theocracy.  Israel wanted ALL to have its values and worship its God, the Caananites and Moabites wanted ALL to have their values and worship their God. Any compromise would have been found unacceptable by both sides.

The liberal mindset in America today is that war is to be a gentle act of persuasion, and that those who win any war fought with weapons are monsters and that those who lose, are noble victims. But no matter the cause of war, at its height - at that instant when the battle can go either way, and at that moment when both sides fear they will lose - both sides, if given the weapons and the option, would logically choose to annihilate the enemy. When soldiers were slaughtering native Americans, had those native Americans had access to modern weaponry, does one really think they would not have used it? Can you imagine an Indian chief, his people dead and dying, the white man moving in, having no respect for the buffalo or the land, saying, 'Gee, we could win this war, but we respect life so much that we won't destroy the lives of our enemies. We'll just lie down and die for them'?

The Midianites were not noble victims. They fought hard. They would have loved to have killed every Israelite and to have wiped them off of the planet. They were not a peaceful village in a sleepy valley that was one day attacked by vicious hordes of Jews. They were constantly waging war, burning Israel's crops and leaving them with nothing to eat. In my opinion, the war was a just war, especially when viewed through the lens of moral relativism. It is laughable when a person, 3500 years after the fact, sitting in his comfortable house, sipping a latte', who adheres to the principles of moral relativism, emphatically claims that God was immoral for having conducted such a war.

The next time a secular humanist starts ranting about how immoral our God is, remind him of his hypocrisy. Morality may just be a little too relative for his intellectual comfort!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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