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Christian Apologetics, Logic in Religious Debate, Christianity vs. Atheism. Just how real is God?
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FROM
SKEPTICISM TO WORSHIP
Read how A.S.A. Jones
discovered faith in God after 20 years of hardcore
skepticism and debate.

THE
TRUTH OF THE BIBLE;
LEARNING TO THINK
SPIRITUALLY
-Spiritual truths illustrated through Optical
Illusions, Riddles and the Mobius Strip.
DEBATE,
ARGUMENT,
AND APOLOGETICS; CONTENDING EARNESTLY
FOR THE FAITH - An examination of the Scopes Monkey Trail. Table of
Fallacies, Using Logic in Debate,
More...
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RELIGIOUS DEBATE!;
SEE WHAT IT TAKES TO COME OUT ON TOP!
Learn how to argue your point by reading these actual debates against hardline skeptics
DEBATE
TIP: Debate is about two people giving each other
the opportunity to say something stupid.
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ANALYZE THIS!
RESPONSES
TO E-MAIL. INCLUDES AIR-TIGHT LOGICAL ARGUMENTS
FOR:
How can
a good God allow suffering
What about those who have never heard
about Jesus
And more!
THE
GAME DESIGNER ARGUMENT WHY
GOD'S MORALITY IS OBJECTIVE Exposes secular morality
and meaning to life as an imaginary game.
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THE POLITICAL CHRISTIAN
Why Secularists Fear Politically Active Christians
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Other
essays by A.S.A. Jones:
Why I Believe God is Real
The Games Skeptics Play
A Message to any Christian Entering Debate or College
A Man Called J. P. Holding
How to Witness to an Atheist
The Spirit of Jesus Christ
An Ex-Atheist’s Gospel: Concepts and Scripture that Make Sense to Non-Christians
Christian Poetry - The Paradox of Biblical
Jabberwocky; Why Not A Christian?
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SEND
HATE MAIL
SEND
FAN MAIL
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Book, Radio, TV, and Media Recommendations
Off Site Webs
Blue Letter Bible - Find scripture verses fast
ScriptureKnowledge.Info - Insight from my pastor, Pastor Roy Aiken
Infidels.org's parody of
Ex-atheist.com
Tim Holt’s Philosophy of Religion
J.P. Holding's
Tekton Apologetics Ministries
Virtual Salt - More on Logic and Worldview from Robert Harris
India's Rational Christianity
Glenn Miller's
Christian Think-Tank
Theology Web - Where the Big Bananas Play
The Body of Messiah - A Heart Provoking Site
Amazing Bible
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This Web is dedicated to MR. DALLAS EATON. Thank you for giving me the encouragement to write.
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How
Can A Good And Loving God Permit Suffering?
A.S.A. Jones
The answers given to the question below are not meant to be exhaustive but are
intended to teach you how to argue your point using logic. No matter what that
point may be, arguing it successfully will depend on your ability to:
1:
Recognize the precision of language in what is being said and in what you are
saying.
EXAMPLE 1
Questions concerning Christianity may be
passively or aggressively stated:
If there is a loving God, why does He
permit us to suffer? – passive
A loving God would not permit us to
suffer, therefore, there is no loving God. - aggressive
2: Recognize the
argument.
Formalizing this issue into a proper argument allows for
greater clarity of thought and would look like this:
A loving God would
not permit us to suffer. Some people suffer horribly. Therefore, a loving
God does not exist.
3: Question a faulty premise
There isn't
anything wrong with the process of inference in the above argument; However, our
criticism lies with the legitimacy of the first premise.
Since 'loving'
is a characteristic that is applied to both humans and God, we make note of the
comparison and make an analogy:
A loving parent would not permit his
child to suffer.
·** In order to declare this comparison to be a false
analogy, your opponent would have to give reasons as to why the analogy would
not hold. Some skeptics will accuse you of making a false analogy every time you
make an analogy. While every analogy, by definition, falls short of being 100%
representative of the concept it attempts to simplify, it is insufficient to
claim an analogy to be weak or false without justifying that claim. Analogies
can be very useful and are considered to be an appropriate tool in inductive
reasoning.
Or would he? A parent who would not permit his child to
suffer would never deprive his offspring of any want, nor would he discipline
the child. What then, do we mean by 'suffer'? If we limit the definition of
suffering to physical pain, then we have to acknowledge that loving parents
permit their children to suffer pain, at least to some degree, when they allow
them to have immunization shots, or undergo chemotherapy or teach them how to
ride a bike, knowing that the chances of them falling and getting hurt are
probable. Therefore, a loving parent does permit his child to suffer physically,
if he considers the suffering to be insignificant and for a greater
good.
But would a loving parent permit his child to suffer significant
pain for a greater good? As humans, we have a corporeal concern; no matter how
strong our faith in God, this material and physical world is the only world of
which we are aware. Therefore, we consider any significantly painful infliction
as harmful to our bodies and our existence.
The difference between man
and God is that God is fully aware of man's spiritual reality in addition to his
physical reality. God knows that physical suffering cannot harm our eternal
souls. God knows that our physical destruction is not an end to our existence.
Of what significance is an hour of physical suffering compared to eternity? Of
what significance is a lifetime of suffering compared to eternity? We can
conclude that from God's perspective, our physical suffering is relatively
insignificant. This is not to say that He is unsympathetic or oblivious to our
pain; loving parents feel empathy when their child receives a shot, knowing full
well that the pain is inconsequential.
But what greater good can be
derived from our suffering? Is there a greater good involved? What would justify
God sending us to live in a physical world with physical dangers? Why didn't God
let us stay in the Garden of Eden?
According to the Bible, man was
removed from the Garden of Eden in order to be born again so that one day, he
could eat of the Tree of Life and be forever in God's company as a holy people.
If men were made to live forever in their natural, sinful state, they would be
eternally hellish creatures. God sees the greater good being accomplished in the
transformation that will allow us to live eternally in heaven, a transformation
that can only take place in the physical world. Spiritual lessons can’t take
place in the garden; they have to take place in a desert.
It isn't that
God wills us to experience misfortune, but that these misfortunes are merely the
consequence of living in a physical world within our physical bodies. Every day,
loving people make the decision to bring children into this world, knowing that
it is a world filled with risk and injury. God is no less loving for having
created the world in which we all live. But one may ask, "Why doesn't God do
what He can to prevent these injuries, as any good parent would?
The
argument quickly reduces itself into absurdity. At what point should God cease
to prevent suffering? Should He suspend gravity for every trip of the foot?
Should He suspend the properties of heat for every finger that touches a lit
stove? In short, we would be asking God to suspend the physical laws that allow
our very existence. We are saying, "Surely, God, there had to be a better way
than all of this!" But until we can create a better planet that contains no risk
to physical life, I shouldn't think that we would be in a position to criticize.
For all we know, the existence that we are experiencing now may well be the only
logical possibility of existence.
4.State your position in the
affirmative.
In summary, the initial argument against God's existence
was:
A loving God would not permit us to suffer. Some people suffer
horribly. Therefore, a loving God does not exist.
We make the
following rebuttal:
We make an analogy between God, the loving Father,
and human parents. The attribute that we are comparing is the ability of each to
love his ‘children’/’creation’.
1) We consider parents to be loving when
they permit their child to suffer insignificantly for a greater good. 2) Our
greater good is salvation. 3) Our earthly suffering is insignificant when
examined in the scope of eternity. 4) Therefore, we can experience suffering
and still believe in the existence of a loving God.
[Return to Ex-Atheist home]
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